George A. Romero's zombie movies are probably some of the best-known horror films in the entire canon of the genre's history. With this year being the 25th Anniversary of Day of the Dead and with the film hitting the Blu-ray format (a features-packed SE is coming soon from UK company Arrow), we here at Digital Retribution Towers decided it was high time to speak to one of cinema's most iconic characters – Captain Rhodes. That is, the actor who plays him, Joe Pilato. Joe was kind enough to spare us some time to answer a few questions on Day of the Dead, as well as about his career as an actor.
Digital Retribution: How did you come to be involved with Day of the Dead?
Joe Pilato: I had moved to Pittsburgh after living in Europe for a couple of years studying at the Polish Laboratory theatre with a director named Jersey Growtowski. They were doing some work with the University of Pittsburgh and I relocated to Pittsburgh to partake in that work, set down my roots there and became a local actor. A pretty busy local actor. I got all my union cards in Pittsburgh. And George, being from Pittsburgh, always held Pittsburgh's auditions as well as New York and LA auditions. I had originally auditioned for the part of David Emge's character in Dawn of the Dead, but there was too much similarity in my size to Scotty. I think that's the first time I met George. I had also done Knight Riders for him. So he was aware of my work. And, when it came time for Day to be shot, he held a series of auditions in New York, Los Angeles, and Pittsburgh. I auditioned for the role. I had known him about 3 years, we were all part of the Pittsburgh film family, which I did Effects for too - which is out on DVD now. And that's how I got involved.
DR: Captain Rhodes is one of the most iconic characters in horror movie history – what attracted you to the role?
JP: First of all, thank you very much. The main thing that attracted me to the role, as with any actor, is work. It was a job. I had an acting job. Then of course, as I got drawn into the script and the character, he had such a solid, unbending point of view and he also had the power to implement it. So he was sort of a dictator. And, dictators are usually bad. And, bad guys are usually more interesting than good guys. Thus, the attraction.
DR: Much of the film was shot at Wampum mine, a disused underground limestone quarry – did this claustrophobic environment create any tension within the crew?
JP: It actually worked to the opposite because we were underground for 12, 13, 14 hours a day. We didn't see sunlight for 8 to 10 weeks. Get up, be on the set at 6, and go back to the hotel at 8 o'clock at night. It was pretty spacious. So, the fact that we were all in it together, and down there together, there's a lot of down time in film. We used the time to have fun, play some practical jokes on people, and the crew was inventing different sort of dress up days for the crew to come in. One day the crew all came in dresses. It brought us closer together. The only thing is we all got severely ill with upper respiratory infections because of the dust.
DR: During the scene where Rhodes is devoured by zombies, the line 'Choke on 'em' is reportedly ad-libbed by yourself (and is probably the most well known line from the film). Did Romero allow you creative control over how Rhodes is portrayed and did you add much dialogue yourself?
JP: One of the great things about working with George is he'll let you try anything. He knows exactly what he wants but is always open to another point of view or he'll at least look at it. I improvised 2 lines in the movie: one, "Choke on 'em" and the other, "pus fuck." The "pus fuck" happened because, Bub, the lead zombie, was chasing me down the hallway and he had already shot me in the leg and I was crawling. If you recall the sequence, I'm crawling down this hallway and I bumped my head into this concrete wall really hard and I really got pissed and I just went, "You fuck, you pus fuck." When the scene was over, the sound guy looked at George and said, 'Did he say pus fuck?' And George looked at the sound guy and said, 'Yeah. Keep it.' Now, in terms of "Choke on 'em," that didn't come in until the day I actually – we each had a day to die, thus day of the dead – and mine was the last day to die because it was the biggest set up. So, that morning I came in and said I wanted to talk to George and he said, 'What's up?' and I said, 'Well, George, I don't think Captain Rhodes would go down without saying something.' And he said, 'Well let's remember that your torso's being ripped apart, your legs are being dragged away from you, how could you possibly say anything?' And I said, 'Rhodes just wouldn't go down without having something to say.' And he said 'Well, what would it be?' And I was a little bit shy about saying it out loud, so he leaned over and I whispered into his ear, "Choke on 'em." And he just pulled his head back and looked at me and said, 'You got it.' There was not a lot of improv. The script was pretty solid. Just little touches of color.
DR: And regarding that scene, I've read that real animal innards were used – but that someone had turned off the refrigerator where they were being stored, which made them smell awful and caused crew members to be ill. Did this make the scene unpleasant for you or is there no truth to this story?
JP: Oh no, it's definitely true. It made it horrible for me. I was stuck in a hole, in a false floor, for about five hours. That's why they told me, when I came on the set, don't eat or drink anything because you're not going to be able to use the facilities once we get you in the hole. They put me in this hole. In fact, they put a toilet seat over the hole as a joke. So, I had to open the toilet seat and then move into the seat to get into the hole, there was a lot of fun on the set. But, once I get in there it was pretty uncomfortable and all that was revealed of me was from my upper torso up to my head. And then they started dressing me with the false legs and the false stomach lower part of the torso. Everything was fine. And then, it was time to bring out the guts. To this day we don't know if the plug was pulled intentionally or if it just happened because they had been away for ten days down in Florida shooting. And, when the guts came out the smell was just absolutely revolting and it took at least two hours to set the guts up. And, I had an aspirator on, they were spraying cologne, people were gagging and retching. I can smell it to this day. In fact, once they sealed the stomach up, the smell subsided a little bit, but it didn't too much. We only had one take of the shot, three cameras rolling and I was really trying not to gag. Then they did the shot and they ripped me open, and I had to take a big inhale to deliver the line, "choke on 'em," and I did that and they dragged my legs away. As soon as they said cut, man, I just started retching and gagging. They had to pull me out of the hole. It was a great effect, but it was a horrible experience.
DR: The horror genre often requires heavy make-up and special effects for its actors – was this ever a problem for you?
JP: No. Work is never a problem. I had done a Starfleet Academy game years ago. I played a Klingon, and a Venturi. The makeup took a couple of hours each. It's a hazard of the trade. I don't know what it would be like if I had to do it every day for a ten week shoot with the glue and the prosthetics and things like that, but, you gotta go, you gotta do it. Generally, working on those prosthetics are really great artists and funny people.
DR: How long was the shoot for Day of the Dead?
JP: Approximately, ten weeks. One week was spent in Florida, which I desperately tried to write myself a scene in so I could get away from the Pittsburgh winter. But, it didn't happen. I tried several different plot devices. Why don't we have Captain Rhodes digging Major Cooper's grave? Then they were like, 'Joe, you're not going to Florida.' So, it was an eight to ten week shoot.
DR: How did you find working with George Romero?
JP: George is a wonderful director. He gives you the license, he's very patient, this giant of a man. It's funny, you know, he just had a kid and he'd be holding his baby on the set, with all of these zombies walking around, and telling jokes. He's very understanding of the actor's process and tries not to get in the way of that and keep things fairly real and very open to questions and observations about changes and will listen. If he likes it, he'll keep it. And, if he doesn't, he'll tell you 'no.' You couldn't ask for a more perfect director because he has fun. He has fun from the time he gets there until the time he gets back.
It's funny, I got up one morning about 6 o'clock, getting ready to go down to the hotel and have my breakfast, waiting for my teamster driver to pick me up and drive me to the set and I looked out my window and I saw George. It had snowed and frosted that night, and he was scraping the windshield of his own car and I'm going, you know, here's a guy who should be driven to the set and probably chose not to. He's just a very down to earth guy.
DR: Do you ever watch your own films – and if so, do you find it strange seeing yourself die on-screen?
JP: Yeah, listening to yourself and watching yourself for me is always a weird experience. But, I've seen it enough times that it's not that bothersome to me because I attend a lot of screenings and conventions and sometimes I enjoy sitting in with the audience to listen to their reactions. Some of them already know the lines that are coming and repeat them. So, it's a strange thing.
DR: You've recently been a guest at film festivals in Edinburgh and Dublin – how did you like the UK and are you ever surprised at the huge following Day of the Dead still has?
JP: I love the UK. I, unfortunately, did not get to see much of it other than the inside of a theatre, the inside of a taxi, the inside of a hotel room. It was three appearances in four days and I briefly had time to walk the streets of Dublin, Edinburgh, and Glasgow. Yeah, I'm very surprised at the fanbase. I love the fans. They just keep coming and coming. It's a movie that a lot of people just really, really like. I think one of the reasons for that is because each character's point of view, whether it's the scientific point of view, or the military point of view or the voodoo point of view, people's reaction, especially if they're genre fans, it's just strong. Great special effects. It's one of George's favourites. Sometimes, he says it is his favourite. He tells a great story. But, yes. I am amazed at the number of people that have been touched by it.
DR: Looking further back on your career – I have to say that Effects is a remarkable movie and one of my all-time favourites. How did you become involved with this project?
JP: Yeah, it's a shame about Effects because it was in litigation for so long and it was really ahead of its time. It's really a shame. I was a known actor in Pittsburgh and the word went around that they were auditioning. In fact, I didn't have an audition. I was working for a theatre company at the time and one of the actresses said she needed a ride to an audition on the southside of Pittsburgh, and I said 'Sure.' So, I drove her and she said 'Come on up and hang out in the waiting room.' And, apparently, the person she was supposed to read with had a conflict and didn't show up and so I read the part of Dominic, the cinematographer. And Dusty Nelson, the director, and John Harrison, the producer, liked my reading so much they cast me in it. It's a real nice film. I really like it. I'm glad the fans finally got to see it and that it got a release.
DR: Effects, unfortunately, was barely seen until its first official release on DVD in 2005 – do you know why this was?
JP: I don't know the specifics. It was something to do with some sort of litigation, I don't know if it was over ownership or partnership. I really don't know what the story was behind that. All I know is that it just sat on the shelf collecting dust for way too many years.
DR: Effects was a small-scale affair – so were you allowed a degree of creative input?
JP: Yes, absolutely. We kind of lived together in this farmhouse. So, it was a kind of very communal atmosphere. Again, the script was very good so it didn't need a lot of departure, but just certain nuances Dusty was very opened to. We tried things different ways and sometimes he'd pull out the camera in the middle of the night and say "let's shoot this". So, it was a very communal, opened, kind of experience.
DR: Effects addresses the subject of the existence of 'snuff movies' – do you have a personal view on the matter?
JP: I've never seen a snuff movie. I don't think I care to see a snuff movie. Murder is murder. I think, fictionally, it's a pretty titillating and tantalizing concept for a movie, fiction-wise. But, in terms of the reality of the situation, hell no.
DR: Pittsburgh once had a thriving small, independent film scene going on – do you think those days are gone forever with the mass consumerist machine that is Hollywood calling all the shots these days, or has it always been this way?
JP: Pittsburgh had a boon in the 70s and 80s, great locations. It's still used. I shot Gung Ho there and numerous films have been shot there, and of course, George and the Pittsburgh film family filming their stuff. But, I think so many people are shooting in Canada right now because of the prices. But, it'll come around again. Pittsburgh is a very, very unique location. You can make it look like anything. It has a lot of different neighbourhoods and ethnic pockets to it. The heyday certainly is over for now. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it came back.
DR: I recently caught The Ghouls (which I thought was rather good), a small independent film, wherein you have a small role. How did you get involved in this and why did you go uncredited?
JP: I know Chad Ferrin, the director, very well. I like his work. I like his concept. I like his ideas. But, in terms of the credit, that's really something that I can't really discuss. But, Chad's a great filmmaker.
DR: When not acting, how do you like to spend your time?
JP: Well, looking for work primarily. Golfing, swimming, watching movies, singing.
DR: Do you have any projects lined up for the future?
JP: Yes, I do. I've already done the voice over for Night of the Living Dead: Origins directed by Zebediah DeSoto. And, I play Harry Cooper in it. That should be coming out next Halloween, I believe. And, I just booked a short film that's part of an anthology and as yet untitled and under confidentiality, but I'll be shooting that soon, as well as the convention circuit.
DR: All that remains is for us to thank you for taking the time to do this interview. It's been a pleasure.
Also big thanks have to go to Joe's agent, the peerless Joe Venegas, and to Calum Waddell (author, journalist and all-round top fella), without whom none of this would have been possible.
George A. Romero's zombie movies are probably some of the best-known horror films in the entire canon of the genre's history. With this year being the 25th Anniversary of Day of the Dead and with the film hitting the Blu-ray format (a features-packed SE is coming soon from UK company Arrow), we here at Digital Retribution Towers decided it was high time to speak to one of cinema's most iconic characters – Captain Rhodes. That is, the actor who plays him, Joe Pilato. Joe was kind enough to spare us some time to answer a few questions on Day of the Dead, as well as about his career as an actor.
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P.S. 'Gung Ho' was released in Australia as 'Working Class Man'.